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Edited on 2004-11-15 12:38:11 by client209-42-223-14.intrex.net
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Edit: hoary shit, Newegg just got a few Compro Ultras in stock in the last few minutes. I'll get my review up ASAP (Fedex should arrive Friday...I'll be out of town until Saturday night but will post quick info then).
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Edit: hoary shit, Newegg just got a few Compro Ultras in stock in the last few minutes. I'll get my review up ASAP (Fedex should arrive Friday...I'll be out of town until Saturday night but will post quick info then).
Edited on 2004-11-01 04:49:57 by RichardBerg
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Edited on 2004-11-01 04:48:46 by RichardBerg
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Edited on 2004-11-01 04:46:59 by RichardBerg
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Hmm, apparently it works in the digital domain after all. I doubt it's significantly more complex than the software comb filters we're all used to (though it does have access to unsampled information that never makes it into Huffyuv). So as has been said all along, what we're really after is a very forgiving tuner. Regardless, it's not like we're paying through the nose for the NEC's benefits, even if they are incremental. If someone wants to know exactly what the extra $10 gets you, buy me a Compro Gold Plus∞ and I'll let you know :)
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Hmm, apparently it works in the digital domain after all. I doubt it's significantly more complex than the software comb filters we're all used to (though it does have access to unsampled information that never makes it into Huffyuv). So as has been said all along, what we're really after is a very forgiving tuner. Regardless, it's not like we're paying through the nose for the NEC's benefits, even if they are incremental. If someone wants to know exactly what the extra $10 gets you, buy me a [URL=http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-160-017&depa=0]Compro∞ Gold Plus"}} and I'll let you know :)
Edited on 2004-11-01 04:45:45 by RichardBerg
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Edited on 2004-11-01 04:45:09 by RichardBerg
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Hmm, apparently it works in the digital domain after all. I doubt it's significantly more complex than the software comb filters we're all used to (though it does have access to unsampled information that never makes it into Huffyuv). So as has been said all along, what we're really after is a very forgiving tuner. Regardless, it's not like we're paying through the nose for the NEC's benefits, even if they are incremental. If someone wants to know exactly what the extra $10 gets you, buy me a [URL=http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-160-017&depa=0]Compro∞ Gold Plus"}} and I'll let you know :)
Parting thoughts while I've got an FTP window open to my random-images archive: people with HDTV suck∞ (taken OTA, summer '02, suburban Seattle, with a card on loan from Tom Barry)
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[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/badcable3.jpg[/IMG∞]
[IMG]http://richardberg.net/bin/temp/goodcable5.jpg[/IMG∞]
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/dahntay%20-%20bad%20hauppauge.jpg[/IMG∞]
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/bad%20levels%201.png[/IMG∞]
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/andromeda-before-1.png[/IMG∞] [IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/andromeda-after-1.png[/IMG∞]
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/block_d64083.gif[/IMG∞]
Hmm, apparently it works in the digital domain after all. I doubt it's significantly more complex than the software comb filters we're all used to (though it does have access to unsampled information that never makes it into Huffyuv). So as has been said all along, what we're really after is a very forgiving tuner. Regardless, it's not like we're paying through the nose for the NEC's benefits, even if they are incremental. If someone wants to know exactly what the extra $10 gets you, buy me a [URL=http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-160-017&depa=0]Compro∞ Gold Plus[/URL] and I'll let you know :)
Parting thoughts while I've got an FTP window open to my random-images archive: [URL=http://richardberg.net/bin/temp/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people∞ with HDTV suck[/URL] (taken OTA, summer '02, suburban Seattle, with a card on loan from Tom Barry)
![http://richardberg.net/bin/temp/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people](http://richardberg.net/bin/temp/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people){kind=link}
Edited on 2004-11-01 04:42:54 by RichardBerg
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[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/block_d64083.gif[/IMG∞]
Parting thoughts while I've got an FTP window open to my random-images archive: [URL=http://richardberg.net/bin/temp/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people∞ with HDTV suck[/URL] (taken OTA, summer '02, suburban Seattle, with a card on loan from Tom Barry)
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[IMG]http://www.necel.com/digital_av/english/images/block_d64083.gif[/IMG∞]
Parting thoughts while I've got an FTP window open to my random-images archive: [URL=http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people∞ with HDTV suck[/URL] (taken OTA, summer '02, suburban Seattle, with a card on loan from Tom Barry)
![http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people](http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people){kind=link}
Oldest known version of this page was edited on 2004-11-01 04:40:02 by RichardBerg []
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(originally posted here∞)I have, Guernica Bill. Just to back up what I4004 is saying, here are some examples of the failure modes of BT cards. These screenshots were all taken with the same hardware hooked to the same cable jack except as noted. I forget whether this was with my Leadtek or one of the many Hauppauge 401s I've bought & sold; they all behaved identically in similar situations. Remind me to tell you the story of the latest one's death, it's funny.
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/badcable3.jpg[/IMG∞]
Wiring up college dorms was always easy; then in 2001 I moved into my first apartment. Long runs of shitty coax across several transformers never helps things.
[IMG]http://richardberg.net/bin/temp/goodcable5.jpg[/IMG∞]
Taken the next day -- amazing what a few bucks at Ratshack will get you.
With a few more years of experimentation and Internet discussion under my belt, I can break down the various problems in that example. Vertical bars are pretty common even when the input is not noisy; sometimes a cheap BT card can be fixed by modding its grounding, but the problem actually seems to stem from a weak signal. Lots more people will have success curing it with a video amplifier than with a soldering iron. Uneven background colors usually means you need to fine tune if possible (varies by channel obviously). Blurry vertical lines usually point to a poor splitter. RFI noise is, well, RFI noise...good luck with that -- all you can hope to do is use generic "best practices" WRT analog transmission. Buy splitters and cables with the right bandwidth and shielding specs, and avoid things like motors and flourescent lights as much as possible.
Back in the dark days of VfW drivers, it was possible to pick up bugs there too. Many were fixable, like field-dominance issues...
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/dahntay%20-%20bad%20hauppauge.jpg[/IMG∞]
...but many were not, like wonky levels...
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/bad%20levels%201.png[/IMG∞]
There isn't much an enthusiast can do about Y/C combing other than throw hardware at it. I4004 uses an external tuner, but that's annoying if you want software control; now we can apparently buy very nice on-card ICs and tuners. Impossible to say (yet) what individual improvement each component provides, but from the comparison by "millernw" it's obvious that the it's much more like the analog comparisons above than like Avisynth postprocessing, which (aside from editing out commercials, fixing swapped fields, and playing tic-tac-toe) looks like this:
[IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/andromeda-before-1.png[/IMG∞] [IMG]http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/andromeda-after-1.png[/IMG∞]
We're geeks, though. No ambiguity should left unresolved. Let's look at what the NEC chip actually does:
[IMG]http://www.necel.com/digital_av/english/images/block_d64083.gif[/IMG∞]
Hmm, apparently it works in the digital domain after all. I doubt it's significantly more complex than the software comb filters we're all used to (though it does have access to unsampled information that never makes it into Huffyuv). So as has been said all along, what we're really after is a very forgiving tuner. Regardless, it's not like we're paying through the nose for the NEC's benefits, even if they are incremental. If someone wants to know exactly what the extra $10 gets you, buy me a [URL=http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-160-017&depa=0]Compro∞ Gold Plus[/URL] and I'll let you know :)
Note that I still disagree with I4004 about the Philips chip. Even in the uncompressed BMPs from the Japanese website, it just looks like the CX has a peaking filter turned up higher. That may help some filterchains separate noise from data but it's not any more "real" detail. And you can adjust the peaking on Philips if you want. Also, if Babelfish is translating correctly, it appears the CX chip returns improper CCIR-601 YUV levels.
Parting thoughts while I've got an FTP window open to my random-images archive: [URL=http://duke.richardberg.net/vidcap/img/CBS%20-%20HDTV%20-%20full.jpg]people∞ with HDTV suck[/URL] (taken OTA, summer '02, suburban Seattle, with a card on loan from Tom Barry)
Edit: hoary shit, Newegg just got a few Compro Ultras in stock in the last few minutes. I'll get my review up ASAP (Fedex should arrive Friday...I'll be out of town until Saturday night but will post quick info then).
[edit #2: HDTV link is jpg, not png]
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